Engine weight

[Sea Fever]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the weight difference between an Atomic 4 and a Westerbeke diesel?  

I believe the Pilot 35s were originally designed to carry an Atomic 4.  My last boat had one and it is a much smaller engine than the Westerbeke.  I can't imagine it could be anywhere near as heavy. (it's also more powerful)  Granted there's the gas versus diesel debate. (my wife and I have taken opposite sides of that one many times)  But my thought is, if in fact Sparkman and Stephens had designed the Pilots to carry a lighter engine, how would a heavier one affect the boat's handling?  I'm thinking it could be very helpful in carrying more weight forward, what with windlasses and anchor chain etc., but wouldn't that all add up to a lower waterline?  If so, I'm thinking a lighter engine, as well as watching how much weight is added forward, would greatly improve performance.  

I believe the Yanmar diesels are much lighter than the Westerbekes.  Might they be a closer match to the Atomic 4s?  

I'd love to hear from anyone who has changed from a Westerbeke to a Yanmar.  Have you notice such an improvement?  If so, I would certainly be considering the switch in our future.

Thanks, Charlie

[3c36x848aj15b]

Apparently both the western eke 30 and Yanmar 30 are in the 300 Lb range. The present older western eke 4-107 is in the 400 Lb range. I would be interested in any thoughts you have re Yanmar vs westerbeke. The 30 hp , although smaller than the present engine , is supposed to Nebraska more than adequate. I sailed a Pilot with a Yanmar 30 and it was quiet and terrific.
Marshal

[Sea Fever]

We have our new Yanmar now.
We love it, and have great power. (especially in reverse)
Way more prop walk then we had with the Westerbeke. But the larger wheel certainly would account for that.

[TARA]

This is a very interesting topic.  TARA came with a new Yanmar 30 and I noticed that she was bow heavy.  I thought this was due to the lighter weight of the Yanmar.  While rewiring the bow lights I removed all the cabinetry from the v-berth and discovered 15 very heavy lead bars under the floor of the storage locker! I decided to remove them and now TARA sits perfectly to her water line fore and aft.  Has anyone else found these lead bars?

[Sea Fever]

Funny you say that!
I have been trying to figure out why our Sea Fever has been sitting bow down, especially with the holding tanks full. I had looked for weights in the anchor locker and in the bilge aft of the forward holding tank, but saw nothing.
Is the weight under the cabinetry visible without removing the cabinetry itself? I'm wondering if I might have missed it.

[TARA]

I found them under the floor of the storage locker forward of the V-Birth and aft of the anchor chain storage area.  To remove the floor I had to remove the shelves and their supports.

[304sjagctcw3g]

I'm still discovering parts of Nebaras.  When I was removing everything to get ready for the refit, I discovered about 150# of lead ingots under the forward section of the settee. Nebaras is a custom so, of course, the trim will be different.

As I'm going to be installing a freshwater flush head, along with a dedicated fresh water tank, and it will be close to where the ingots are, I will be removing them and then put back as/if needed.
 
TARA said:

This is a very interesting topic.  TARA came with a new Yanmar 30 and I noticed that she was bow heavy.  I thought this was due to the lighter weight of the Yanmar.  While rewiring the bow lights I removed all the cabinetry from the v-berth and discovered 15 very heavy lead bars under the floor of the storage locker! I decided to remove them and now TARA sits perfectly to her water line fore and aft.  Has anyone else found these lead bars?

[TARA]

The new Yanmar is at least 100lbs lighter. I also changed my mast for a much lighter one as well.  As a result I have fond Tara sails effortlessly through chop, she doesn’t pitch pole as much and just takes waves with ease.  Lighter is much better from my experience.  IMHO, you'd be crazy to go gas, a new Yanmar diesel will last forever and then there is the safety issue.  If you have to blow fumes out prior to starting a gas engine isn't that saying something?  I did have to remove those lead bars to get her to sit evenly at the waterline.   If you wish to talk on the phone let me know, at this point I know every inch of my pilot except for what lies behind the icebox as there is no access.  

[Sea Fever]

Sea Fever
Well, well, well,

Nice to see my old thread is alive and kicking!
I'm so glad to hear what you both are saying. I've heard others talking about balance issues as well.
I did install a new Yanmar 30 and I have been blaming my full holding tanks for her low bow, as I never did find any weights. But I'm thinking I haven't been looking in the right places.
I recall some time ago someone noting that their pilot used to belong to their grandfather and when he sailed her she sailed much easier. Their thought was that having added a windless, chain rode and heavy stem mounted anchor the balance was greatly disturbed.
My guess is that these boats were designed to carry the very light Atomic Fours and when people started turning to the heavier diesels it made them sit low in the stern, hense the added lead. (I'm sure they had a good reason for adding it) Then with the newer lighter diesels and heavy deck gear, down she goes forward. I am so hoping to find lead in mine as that may also explain why other pilots I've sailed with have been so hard to keep up with.
By the way, fixing a balance problem by adding ballast will trim her out, but your still left sitting lower in the water then it was originally designed to. And that's bound to greatly effect performance.
I'm still a bit puzzled as to where to look. Eric, I take it you found your's under the forward part of the cabin settee, as in aft of the head? And Tara's was under the floor of a forward storage locker? I looked in my anchor rode's locker and found nothing but could you mean the lockers under the V berth? Or even under the holding tanks?
I sure would like to remove mine as well, if possible.
Thanks!
just now

[304sjagctcw3g]

That's affirmative.  But keep in mind that the custom has a very different layout.  I fear that Nebaras will not sail quite as well as other Pilots, given that she has the heavier Hood Stoway mast, etc.

As for weight in general and, of course, it's distribution, I plan to use only 100' of 1/4" G4 chain with 200' of 1/2".  I see many using larger chain than necessary. My soon to be last boat, an Allied Seawind II, uses the same chain/rope rode combination and I've ridden out some pretty good storms.
 
Sea Fever said:

Sea Fever
Well, well, well,

Nice to see my old thread is alive and kicking!
I'm so glad to hear what you both are saying. I've heard others talking about balance issues as well.
I did install a new Yanmar 30 and I have been blaming my full holding tanks for her low bow, as I never did find any weights. But I'm thinking I haven't been looking in the right places.
I recall some time ago someone noting that their pilot used to belong to their grandfather and when he sailed her she sailed much easier. Their thought was that having added a windless, chain rode and heavy stem mounted anchor the balance was greatly disturbed.
My guess is that these boats were designed to carry the very light Atomic Fours and when people started turning to the heavier diesels it made them sit low in the stern, hense the added lead. (I'm sure they had a good reason for adding it) Then with the newer lighter diesels and heavy deck gear, down she goes forward. I am so hoping to find lead in mine as that may also explain why other pilots I've sailed with have been so hard to keep up with.
By the way, fixing a balance problem by adding ballast will trim her out, but your still left sitting lower in the water then it was originally designed to. And that's bound to greatly effect performance.
I'm still a bit puzzled as to where to look. Eric, I take it you found your's under the forward part of the cabin settee, as in aft of the head? And Tara's was under the floor of a forward storage locker? I looked in my anchor rode's locker and found nothing but could you mean the lockers under the V berth? Or even under the holding tanks?
I sure would like to remove mine as well, if possible.
Thanks!
just now

[Sea Fever]

You might be glad to know that one of the nicest pilots I've had the pleasure of sailing with is Buzz and Beth's custom "Glory". She's also one I can't catch for the life of me. I chaulked it up to my lack of experince with my pilot, but just maybe there's more to it than that. There's nothing like lead to slow you down! That's of course assuming mine has some. Otherwise the blame returns to me!

[TARA]

Open the two doors foward of the V-berth (see pict) and the lead bars are under the floor in this location prior to the anchor chain locker.  It is a real pain to remove the floor as all the shelves have to be removed and the freshwater tank input pipe is in the way as well.

[Sea Fever]

But it's not under the tank itself, I gather? I wonder if you could see some of them from the doors under the V berth? This is like solving a mystery. Thanks so much for the map to the treasure. I wish Sea Fever was close by, I can't wait to look into this. Where we have her stored is very close by water, but a pretty good drive by land. Yet another reason to look forward to spring!